"Unfortunately, many Christians have migrated from Syria due to the lack of stability and the unclear vision of the future of Syria," Said Archbishop Ignatius Aphrem, a senior Syriac Orthodox, in an exclusive interview with Rudaw.
"Christians are certainly part of the Syrian community, so the general situation of Syrians is also the situation of Christians," said Aphrem
Aphrem said that although the community supported the political transition that brought the current government to power, little has improved for Christians or other minorities.
"Of course, their situation has not changed for the better until now," he said. "They are the original inhabitants of Syria and have existed for thousands of years... But what we expect now in Syria is that Christians will be treated like first class citizens."
According to the archbishop, Christians were encouraged to take part in the recent indirect parliamentary elections, but only two members of the community were elected, a result that "worries us."
"We want Christians to be equal in all their rights and duties. It is our duty to serve our country. But we want to be given the opportunity to serve this country," he added.
While the government of President Ahmed al-Sharra has sought to reassure minorities, Aphrem said that instability and internal divisions continue to hinder progress. "Even now, there is no complete control over the situation in Syria. Therefore, this is scary for everyone," he said.
He described his May meeting with Sharra as "constructive and positive," noting that he gave them "some reassurances about the future of Syria and about Syria as a community for all its citizens." Still, he acknowledged the government's limitations.
Aphrem stressed that Christians are not seeking special privileges or international protection. "We are against giving any privileges to Christians," he said. "But we want Christians to be citizens of the first degree... And this is what we heard from the president. This is what he really promised."
Despite these assurances, the Christian population continues to shrink dramatically. "In my opinion, the number does not exceed 500,000 Christians in Syria from more than 1.5 million 10 years ago," he said, noting that most are Orthodox Christians spread across Damascus, Aleppo, Homs, Qamishli, Hasakah, and the coastal provinces of Latakia and Tartous.
Below is the full transcript of the interview with Ignatius Aphrem:
Rudaw: I would like to start with the situation of Christians in Syria. How do you assess the situation of Christians, especially after the change of government?
Archbishop Ignatius Aphrem: Christians are certainly part of the Syrian community, so the general situation of Syrians is also the situation of Christians in general. Unfortunately, many Christians have migrated from Syria due to the lack of stability and the unclear vision of the future of Syria. Christians have been trying since the first day of the change in Syria to support the new government. Because it is in the interest of Christians and all Syrians to have stability in Syria, to have peace and to live with love and peace. Therefore, the situation of Christians is the same as that of the rest of Syrians. There are events that happen from one day to the next, which affect Christians as well as others, and this causes fear in the hearts of many people due to the lack of stability. Even now, there is no complete control over the situation in Syria. Therefore, this is scary for everyone.
Has their situation changed for the better or for the worse after the change of government?
Of course, their situation has not changed for the better until now. As I said, Christians are Syrians. They are the original inhabitants of Syria. They are from the original people in Syria and have existed for thousands of years.Their concern is that Syria will be stable and safe for all its people. But what we expect now in Syria is that Christians will be treated like first class citizens. They have rights and duties like all Syrians.This is what we hope that Christians, as well as the rest of Syrians, to live on their land with dignity and honor. Two days ago, there were elections for a new parliament, a temporary parliament for the people. Unfortunately, only two Christians were elected as members of this parliament.This worries us. We want Christians to be equal in all their rights and duties. It is our duty to serve our country. But we want to be given the opportunity to serve this country.
Let's talk about your request. You mentioned that two deputies represent Christians in the parliament. Do they represent you? Did you boycott the elections? Was this the intention such as what the Druze, Kurds and Arabs in the north and east of Syria did? They did not participate in the elections. Did you boycott them?
No, not at all. On the contrary, we encouraged our Christian children to participate in the elections. I should also say that the current government encouraged Christians to participate in the elections. But they did not participate. There were many Christians who were nominated for these elections, but they did not participate. This is what worries us the most.
Why were they not elected?
I don't know why. But maybe we are still living through a revolution of change, or a revolution of victory. Many Syrians thought that they were deprived for many decades from political work. Today is their chance, and we welcome this. We welcome the opportunity for all Syrians to work for Syria. Maybe some of them wanted to play a major role in these elections, but those other Syrian minorities were not given the opportunity to do so.
Let me ask my question in a more clear way. Was there a lack of participation of Christians in the elections? Is this the main reason? Or do you have doubts about the election results?
No, we do not have doubts about the election results. We do not have any information about any violations. But there was a lack of participation of some Christians. Yes, we encouraged them to participate, because we care that everyone participates. But there was a lack of participation of Christians and we need to study the reasons.Because the electors are a designated group of thousands of Syrians assigned by the interim government, including Christians, and these electors are the ones who elected from among themselves, around 140 members, and another 70 will be appointed by the president directly.
Did you meet the president Sharaa?
Yes, I met him last May.
How was the meeting?
It was constructive and positive. I think it was a good meeting. We were able to understand the direction. And of course, he gave us some reassurances about the future of Syria and about Syria as a community for all its citizens. And this is very important. And we still hear reassurances and good words from Syrian officials. But we also understand the difficulty of this government in implementing everything it wants on the ground for several reasons.
What are the reasons?
First, there are many regional and foreign interventions in Syria. Second, there are different groups that reached the government with the president, Ahmed Al-Sharra. And they differ in the degree of their religious commitment and openness to others. So, of course, there are some obstacles that prevent this government from implementing everything it wants now. But I personally do not doubt the government's intention. As for the situation on the ground, it still needs a lot of improvement.
In your meeting, were there any promises to the Christians that were not fulfilled? Or do you have hope that they will be fulfilled?
In the beginning, we do not ask for anything special for Christians in particular. And we are against international intervention or international protection for Christians. We are against giving any privileges to Christians. But we want Christians to be citizens of the first degree. And to act on the basis of citizenship. And this is what we heard from the president. This is what he really promised. And of course, there is an attempt by the government to reassure Christians and give positive signals on this issue. But I say again that this is still in its early stages. And of course, there is a need for time. But at this time, many Christians are leaving. And this is not good for Christians.
They are still leaving?
Yes.
How many Christians are left in Syria? And the Orthodox in particular?
In my opinion, the number does not exceed 500,000 Christians in Syria from more than 1.5 million 10 years ago. And most Christians in Syria are Orthodox. Of course, there are Syrians, Romans, and Orthodox Armenians. There are some Catholic churches and some Protestant churches as well.
Where do they live? As a majority, for example. In which city?
They are distributed throughout Syria. In every region of Syria. Of course, in Damascus, the capital, and around the capital, there is a large percentage. In the provinces of Homs, Aleppo, and the Syrian island of Qamishli, Haseka, in the north-east. And in Ladakia and Tartous. They are present in all these areas. Because they have lived on their lands for thousands of years.
What do you think of the new constitution? The Kurds, Druze, and the Alawites rejected the new constitution.
In fact, we do not have a new constitution yet. There is a constitutional declaration. It contains the main points that could be in the new constitution. In general, this constitution does not meet the aspirations of the Syrian people in general. Especially in the Islamic jurisprudence, which is the only source of legislation in Syria. Of course, we know and respect that Syria is a Muslim country. And the majority of the Syrian people are Muslims. But Syrians must have full rights, whether they are Muslims, Christians, or even non-Muslims. This constitution must be based more on civil principles. And this is what we missed in this constitutional declaration. And we hope that it will be amended in the future.
Is this the only point in the constitution you have issues with?
No, of course there are other points. But I am a religious man, I am the president of a church, and I do not practice politics. But of course there are politicians who object to the absence of representative democracy. Therefore, the people... In the current declaration, there are many authorities restricted to the president. And these things are brought up by politicians. For us, it is important that everyone is equal in everything, in rights and duties. And that they feel that they have a role in building a new Syria, which concerns us all.
Are you confident about the new Syria and the future of Syria?
I am optimistic, but I am careful. I am careful because the situation is still unstable. The vision is unclear. Many depend on the help of the neighboring countries and some of the countries that have the decision making power to help the Syrian people to advance towards a better future. But we hope that this help will not be at the expense of the Syrians. And this is what I mentioned at the beginning, interventions.If it is in the interest of the Syrian people, then of course we welcome it. But if it is for the national interests of these countries, then we cannot accept it.
There were clashes in Suwayda and new clashes in Aleppo, in the Kurdish areas in Aleppo. Do you fear that Christians will be treated like Druze and Kurds in Syria?
Of course, we are against the use of violence by anyone and against anyone.All Syrians are our holy blood. We do not want to see any form of violence anywhere. But as Christians, we are peaceful people and we love peace. We always ask for peace. The Lord Jesus Christ told us, He said to us, Repent to the maker of peace, because it is the children of God who are called. Therefore, we are not armed. We do not pose a threat to any party. We want to cooperate with the authorities at the head of the country. This is our duty as Christians.
Therefore, I do not think that there is a possibility that Christians will be subjected to any form of aggression. As for what happened in the Syrian coast, or in Swayda in the south, and also what is happening these days in areas in Aleppo, or even in the north-east of Syria, in the Syrian island, we certainly hope and pray that these issues will be resolved peacefully. We want every Syrian to enjoy his rights, whether religious rights, national rights, or ethnic rights, in terms of language, culture, and these things. Of course, every cultural identity must be enjoyed, including the one Syrian identity. It is important for Syria to be a unified state, but this state has all its components, from ethnic and religious components, to be respected, and to be considered a special feature of each component, which is beneficial for Syria and not a threat to Syria.
How is your relationship with the Kurds in Rojava, Kurdistan, or in the self-administered areas in Syria?
There is a large Syrian gathering in the north-eastern cities of Syria, and an old Syrian gathering, and the Kurds lived with us in times of love and brotherhood, despite some disagreements that took place historically, but today there is understanding and agreement, but there are some problems that occur in schools, and we are certainly affected by them. Currently, our schools are closed, because the school administration rejects the application of the curriculum produced by the self-administered areas in the north-eastern cities of Syria. We are interested in being connected with the Ministry of Education in Damascus, as a unified state, as a unified country, because the students who graduate from med to high school will go to universities, to Syrian universities. Therefore, this is a sensitive issue for us, and it caused problems in the past few years, at the beginning of each school year, there is a problem with this issue, and this year the problem has developed and led to the closure of schools. We hope that this issue will be resolved quickly.
How was this problem resolved? The schools were closed, and the students...
They were at home.
They do not go to school?
Currently, no.
They do not go to school?
No.
There are no schools in the self-governing areas, and they did not emigrate from the self-administered areas?!
No, no, they did not emigrate, but our schools, the schools run by the church, which is run by the church, are currently closed, because members of the self-administered areas came and closed these schools, because the schools refused to respond to their demands in adhering to the curriculum.
As a church, did you talk to the autonomous administration authorities?
Of course, our clerics in Al-Hasakah are in a direct dialogue with the autonomous administration authorities, and so far they have not reached a conclusion.
As a person, do you have a relationship with the Kurdish leadership?
No, not at all.
So you did not meet Mr. Mazloum Abdi?
No, not at all.
Do you have any intentions?
I have not visited the Jazeera [north-east Syria] area for more than five years, and of course I am excited to go and visit it, but there are some religious reasons, I am waiting for some projects to be completed so that we can open it and have a complete visit, but I would like to meet any person, and of course I do not know General Abdi, but I would like to meet him and get to know him. We would like to have a good relationship with all parties, but within the national staff of Syria.
Okay, but I noticed before the interview that you have a good relationship with the Kurds, because you spoke in Kurdish.
I was born in Qamishli, and I was raised in Qamishli, before I left and joined the Kahnutiya [religious] studies, and I had Kurdish friends, so they spoke a little bit of Syriac, and I spoke a little bit of Kurdish, which is normal. I almost spoke Kurdish to you throughout the interview. I wish, for me, that every language is a gain and a blessing for a person, and I wish to learn it, of course, but this is because my childhood was in Qamishli, so between me and my friends in the Kurdish school, it is normal for them to speak in Syriac, and for us to speak in Kurdish.
It is a beautiful thing.
Of course, of course. Very, very nice.
Do you have a relationship, how is the relationship between you and the Orthodox Church, for example, in Iraq, in the Kurdistan Region?
Of course, the Orthodox Syriac Church is one church, and Patriarch is the head of the church all over the world.
Okay, I mean in the Kurdistan Region, with the Orthodox and Syrians.
Of course, the Syriac Church in the Kurdistan Region, which is a branch of Mosul, the Kurdistan Region, and Kirkuk, is one of the very important branches in the Syriac Church.
Okay.
And the head of the branch is Marni Kodim Westaud, which is the head of the church in constant contact with the Patriarchate, and I personally visited this region many times, mainly because of the displacement that happened as a result of the attacks and massacres committed by ISIS in Mosul, and in the Nineveh Valley, and most of the children of the Orthodox Syriac Church fled to the Kurdistan Region, and I visited them many times. And of course, each time we appreciate more the effort and service that the regional government provides in its presidency, whether it's President Massoud Barzani, or President Nechirvan, or Prime Minister Masrour Barzani, who we always like to pray for, they always make us feel a special concern for the followers of the church, especially those who were displaced. And we appreciate this, and we see that the followers of the church are comfortable here, so my relationship is a father-to-son relationship for those who are here.
Thank you, thank you very much. It was a pleasure to meet you, and once again, welcome to Rodawe Media Network and Erbil. Thank you very much for the interview.
Thank you.
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